Wheeling Spoken History Project: Elvira Corvino

[ Date: June 23, 1995; Interview #: 94-004; Title: Italian Family Life in Benwood, WV ]

▼ Interview with Elvira Corvino

Title: Italian Family Life in Benwood, WV

[ Date: June 23, 1995; Interview #: 94-004 ]

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GORDON SWARTZ: Okay, first thing, just tell me your name and the date. That's how we'll start here.

ELVIRA CORVINO: You mean the date of today? Or what?

GS: Yeah.

EC: Elvira Corvino, and this is the 23rd of June.

GS: Okay. How I'd like to start is tell me some personal background, just to get started here, on yourself, about yourself and your family.

EC: Well, Mom and Dad, they lived in Europe. They come over, and we had a big family. There's five of us, four of us left; and I got married. My husband, he was in Europe; and he come over when he was twenty-four; and I was thirteen, and I got married, and I started a family when I was fifteen, and I had nine children. What else?

GS: You were married when you were thirteen?

EC: Thirteen, and I had my first one at fifteen. He was twenty-four.

GS: You say Europe though. Were you from Italy?

EC: I was born here. Mom and Dad was from Italy.

GS: Okay, and your husband was born in Italy?

EC: Yeah, he was born in Italy, too.

CARL CORVINO (Mrs. Corvino's youngest son): Where at in Italy?

EC: Prizzelone, Prizzerone.

CC: Prizzerone? It's around Rome, then? (22)

EC: Yeah.

GS: Okay. That's what I was wanting. That's right, probably, in the middle of Italy.

EC: Yeah. Right.

GS: How did you meet your husband?

EC: Why, he was a neighbor. So we just become friends and with friends, then I got married. I got married when I was thirteen. Had my first child at fifteen.

GS: I was going to ask you about your childhood, but it seems like you didn't have one.

EC: I didn't have much of a childhood. Went to school as far as the fifth grade, and I just helped Mom take care and helped her make bread and cook, and I didn't have much of a childhood, you know. Run; I just helped Mom. Mom having a garden, and I would make the sauce and make bread for her and all that. I was really mature at thirteen.

CC: What year was you born? (35)

EC: Nineteen twenty-three.

CC: And you got married in what year?

EC: Thirty-six.

CC: That's pretty quick.

EC: Yeah.

GS: How old was your husband then when you were married?

EC: Twenty-four.

GS: He was twenty-four. What age was he when he came over from Italy?

EC: He was twenty-four.

GS: He just immediately.

EC: Yeah, yeah. That was fast one.

GS: He must have impressed you.

EC: Yeah, yeah. Then he had a shoe shop at the house where we lived in. He repaired shoes. Then from there my family kept getting big, and I bought another house; and his hobby was work all the time. He worked in the mill, Wheeling Steel at Benwood. Then he run a TV cable in Benwood, and he had about ninety people on that, and then he gave it up, and then he retired. Then my family was getting big, and they're getting married one after another, and they lived here and lived there. One lives in Florida, the other one lives in North Carolina. (49)

CC: How about Bellaire?

EC: One lives in Bellaire. Carl lives in Bellaire. Goosetown, Bellaire.

GS: You say you had nine children.

EC: Six girls and three boys.

GS: They're spread all over; what you're just saying.

EC: Not really. Only two, three. One's in Bellaire, Ohio; that's Carl; and Nancy's in Florida; and Teresa's in North Carolina; and the rest of them are all around me. They just don't want to leave. (55)

GS: When your husband, when you first married him, he was in, repaired shoes you said.

EC: Yeah, he fixed shoes.

GS: He learned that trade in Italy?

EC: Well, no, really, over here.

GS: He learned it here.

EC: He just picked it up. We lived upstairs, and he had a shop downstairs, and he also worked at the mill doing a trade.

GS: Did he start at the mill real soon? I mean, was he working at the mill when he married you?

EC: Yeah, he worked at the mill when he married me. Then, later on, he give that up; and then he went in TV; and he picked that up himself, too. He didn't have to go to school for that. He picked that up himself.

GS: Did he repair them?

EC: He repaired and also had a TV cable line, you know, with about ninety people on it.

GS: So he was the owner of the business. (64)

EC: Right, right. He had that for a while, and then it was getting to be too much and he gave it up; and then he retired from the Wheeling Steel at sixty-five.

CC: He had forty-four years at that.

GS: That's what I was going to ask, how many years?

EC: He had forty-four years.

GS: When he came over here from Italy, did he have family already here?

EC: No, only a dad.

GS: Just his father.

EC: Just his father. His mother was over in Italy. They didn't want to come over, and his sister, they wanted to stay over there, but just the dad was here.

GS: What did the father do?

EC: He worked at the mill also. He worked at the mill and plant also. (73)

GS: Did he come over and live with his father for a while?

EC: Yeah, he lived with his father for a while; and then we got married.

GS: And you've lived in Benwood all your life?

EC: All my life I've lived in Benwood.

GS: Is there a large group of Italian people in Benwood?

EC: Oh, yeah, Little Italy we called this back street. Everybody's Italian. They were. They're dying off, you know, little by little, getting older, dying off; but it was just like Little Italy; everybody was Italian up on this street; and there's a few yet, you know.

GS: Were they from Italy; were they spread from towns all over Italy; or were they generally from one area.

EC: Where, here?

GS: In Italy, where they originally came from?

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah. (83)

GS: They're just spread all over.

EC: Yeah, they're spread all over.

GS: The reason I ask that question is that I've talked to some people like in Elm Grove. They said like whole towns transferred over.

EC: Well, this probably has changed now. It's changed a lot.

GS: Yeah.

CC: No, I mean, when like Dad and them came over, like you could say right here on High Street how many were from the same part of Italy as Dad was.

EC: Well, they were close like Benwood and Wheeling.

GS: But you said they were from a little town called, right outside of Rome, what was the name of that town?

EC: Prizzelone, Prizzelone.

GS: Were most of the people here from around Rome? (91)

EC: Yeah, it's close to Rome, they was mostly around Rome.

GS: Well, that's what I was getting at.

EC: Yeah, yeah.

GS: Because I talked to some people in Elm Grove, and they were Sicilians over there.

EC: Oh, that's further out.

GS: He says practically everybody out Elm Grove was from a little town in Sicily.

EC: Yeah, yeah, probably Sicily, yeah.

GS: But over here closer to Rome.

EC: Yeah, closer to Rome here.

GS: That's interesting that they all from the same area come over.

EC: Where they had Sicily over there, in a whole group there. See, those days they come over here for work. The men over there they come over here for work. That's the same way with my father-in-law. He come over here for work; the wife stayed over there. (99)

CC: How about Uncle Carl?

EC: That was his stepson.

CC: He come over here too, didn't he?

EC: He come over too, and he died in the coal mine down here.

GS: Did they usually come over to work in the mills or the coal mines?

EC: Yeah, and the wives stayed there, and they'd send money over there, and then when they got their family over there they didn't want to come over. The mother, the wives they stayed there, and it's hard for them to come over. Some of them did and some didn't, but she didn't want to come over. She didn't want to leave her two daughters over there. They were married, so she stayed with them, and he come over here.

GS: And he stayed here. (108)

EC: Worked.

CC: How about the old man. Did he ever talk to you when he come off, just got over here.

GS: Well, that's when she married him.

CC: No, I mean the trip.

EC: The trip. Well, they come by boat then.

GS: So he came through Ellis Island.

EC: Yeah, he come by boat.

CC: And did he know any English when he got off the boat?

EC: No, didn't know nothing, no.

GS: Did you speak Italian at that time?

EC: I still speak Italian, yeah.

GS: You could converse with him then.

EC: I talk Italian a lot with my brother, you know, try to keep the words together and everything, you know. You chop it up a little bit because being away from it. When my mother was living, I always talked Italian. I'd take her to the store. I used to tell her how much she had to pay and everything, you know. I always talked Italian, and the people up here were Italian. We always talk Italian, and I like to keep with it, you know. (119)

GS: Did your parents speak English at all?

EC: They spoke some, but not a lot. They didn't, but they got by, they did.

GS: You're in this little neighborhood. Did you have Italian storekeepers? You say it was Little Italy. It was just a little community like in Italy.

EC: Yeah, sure. There was Grenicki, there was Vacuni. They had Italian store. They delivered the food from Center Benwood. Mr. Vacuni. Tom Vacuni. Then Tom Scarnechia. They'd pick up your orders. It was really nice then, you know, you didn't need no car. Nobody had cars, and they'd come, and they'd deliver every other day and pick up your order. It was really nice. It was just nice. You go down, walk down the street. All those Italian people, they'd be playing cards, you know. The guys would be playing cards; and the women, they'd be sitting on the walks. It was really nice, just like Little Italy it was. You knew everybody and talked to everybody. It was really nice. (133)

CC: I imagine there was a lot of gardens and a lot of.

EC: Yeah, there was a lot of gardens up on the hills up there. Everybody had their part of the garden. It was hard times, you know; but everybody'd plant their garden. We'd go up every night and water our gardens and look at each other's garden, how they're doing. It was just happy times then. We didn't have much, but we were happy, you know.

GS: These gardens; did you own the property where the gardens were?

EC: No. It was owned by Wheeling Steel, but they allowed the people to plant their garden up on a hill.

GS: That's interesting.

EC: Everybody had a garden up there, just a part of the garden.

GS: They just give a little plot to each employee.

EC: Yeah, it was a pretty nice plot.

GS: Okay. (142)

EC: Yeah, and everybody would just join and look at each other's garden, just like a family, you know.

GS: Did you use everything out of your garden, or did you sell any?

EC: No, it was used.

GS: Everything.

EC: It was used, it was. Mom, too. It was used. She'd go up there, and I'd be left home cooking and doing things, making bread, making sauce. It ain't fun like it is today. It was work then.

GS: Gardening is fun today.

EC: Right, right. Now you talk to the kids. They think you're telling a joke, you know.

CC: Yeah, you needed that food.

EC: Yeah, right. We lived on that, everything, you know; and it was really good; and everybody enjoyed it. They wasn't working, and they'd depend on that, and I did too. (153)

CC: It was interesting going through the Depression, huh?

EC: That was a depression, right. I seen times we didn't know what cereal was, we'd have green peppers for breakfast. Mom had a big dish of green peppers, and we'd have green peppers and homemade bread for breakfast before we'd go to school. We'd come back at dinnertime; she would have a bowl of potatoes with onions and oil over it, you know, and we'd go back to school. When we come back, we had potatoes with sauce over it; and we loved it. We had meat once a time, on Sunday we would have meat and potatoes. We was mostly vegetarian, you know, what you can afford, right, beans, plenty of beans and potatoes; and when you got meat you got very little meat, a lot of potatoes. And holidays, we didn't look for toys and stuff like that. All we'd look was for food, something different, you know, chestnuts and that anise celery, you know, they still sell it, and nuts and all that. That's what we'd look for. We didn't look for toys. We didn't have toys. We didn't know what toys. Everybody was the same, not just our family. Everybody was the same, in the same boat. They didn't have much, and who did? It wasn't like now. They had a little toy, and they was tickled to death to have it, you know. I know I had a set of dishes, and they was little sets like this, you know. I used to put it under my bed. My sister had a little doll like this. She would bring it in her bed. We was so tickled to death, you know; and that's why I always tell my kids, you know, why they have so much. We didn't have none, you know. (176)

CC: I bet you Christmas back then was probably a lot better.

EC: Oh, yeah, we didn't have no tree. Only one that did was Smith on High Street. We go see their tree, but we looked mostly for food, you know.

CC: Holiday stuff.

EC: Sausage and stuff like that once a year; and everybody, you know, had homemade wine, elderberries and blackberries, and made their own wine. Kids of today couldn't live like we did years ago. Cereal and that stuff, we didn't know what that stuff was. Nobody had it. We would toast our bread in the oven. We didn't have toasters. In the oven we would have it, and we would put it in a bowl, break it up. We'd put canned milk and coffee in it. That was our meal for breakfast. We wouldn't have eggs or anything like that. Hard bread dunked in coffee. We would eat it. [ Return to Top ]

CC: How about electricity? Did they have electricity?

EC: By then, when I was born, there was electricity. (191)

GS: Your husband was working in the mill this whole time that you're talking about?

EC: No, no, no, this was before I met him. Yeah, this is before I met him.

GS: Right.

EC: I think when I got married they was working three days a week, but then everything was cheap. You got along with it, you know; but he worked outside job too. He just was a workaholic. He had to do a lot of work in order to feed the family.

CC: Big eaters.

EC: Yeah, big eaters, they wasn't little eaters. All of them were big.

GS: You mentioned wine. It seems like everybody I've talked to has mentioned wine. That must be a big part of the Italian.

EC: They made their own wine. If they got caught, you know, the State Police come in their house, they would pour all the wine out in the basement.

CC: During Prohibition? (203)

EC: Yeah, when it was dry and that; but everybody, my brothers used to go up on a hill and pick elderberries. We used to clean them and blackberries, and everybody made their own wine, their own beer, and their own pop. Root beer they used to make.

CC: Italians are like that. That's why there's so many traditions like that from what she's saying. They used to make all that.

EC: Mostly all of them did though.

CC: Italian people were proud, you know, the ones that did make the wine and were good cooks and everything.

EC: They always made that wine, here and there, everywhere, all the Italians did, made wine. They didn't have bars like they do now, and you do find little people that makes good wine. Tradition. That was it.

GS: Did they compare their wine, see who could make the best wine?

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, they did. They would taste it, you know. Mine's good, come taste mine, mine tastes like it's going vinegar; and they'd sample it, you know, house to house. It was just like a family, you know. Everybody got along so good then. It's not like now, you know. Now I think it's more jealousy of one another, or whatever. I don't know, but then nobody had nothing and everybody was together. They had a baby. They'd have it at home while they just all pitched in and helped. Help them and make bread for them and help them with the kids and everything. You just, happy reunion. I remember Mother leaving us and going and helping make chicken soup for them when they had their babies. There wasn't hospitals then, you know. (228)

CC: Yeah, you don't have that now.

EC: And you knew everybody. They was your friends, you know. They depended on them, because they didn't have no mother and dad here. All they did have, friends, you know. That's what they had. Where we had, I got kids, and I had my mother and that, where they didn't have their mother. Mom didn't have mother, and she had friends, and she always told me that friends are better than having money. She said you get a friend, then, you know, a friend now ain't no friend. A friend will stab you in the back now. Yeah, but then you was a friend, it was. They just helped. If you didn't have much you call to eat, they come in. They brought stuff in, and they helped do stuff.

CC: How about when somebody passed away? (239)

EC: Oh, well, yeah, when they passed away it wasn't like here, you know, funeral home. They'd have them at home. The family would go to sleep, and we'd stay up all night, vigil, like vigil. We'd have coffee. We had jokes and things like that and maybe sandwiching while the families rested and everything. It was real nice, that too.

CC: Everybody pitched in on the food and everything.

EC: Yeah, pitch in the food and all. Two to three people, they'd stay up all night. They'd look forward to it. They liked it, you know. While the family got their rest, we kept the vigil, we did. That's what you call the good old days. Didn't have no money, now you got money and just nothing. Nobody's happy with it. Then everybody was happy. I don't know. Just help one another, pitch in. They had a buck, you need it, you got it. Now if you had a buck, somebody asks you, you ain't got it. That ain't no friend, you know; but those days was different. Even during Christmastime and Easter, they'd make this Easter bread. Everybody'd go house to house to see if their bread was raising up, Easter cake was raising up; and they'd make that Italian Easter cake, you know. That was fun too.

GS: What's an Italian Easter cake? (260)

EC: Well, you make, it takes two days to make it. You put flour, sugar, whiskey, wine in it, yeast.

GS: Sounds good.

EC: It takes two days to get involved, and sometime it won't raise, and you go house to house, you know, with the other people, to see how their's is doing, you know.

CC: Some of them still make it.

EC: Yeah, they call it pina; and, if the weather's cool, you had to keep them warm. They won't raise, you know; and you go house to house who's making it and say, "How's your cake coming, how's your pina coming?" "Oh, mine's coming up slow," you know. It was just fun, you know. Everybody, mostly at night, you know. They'd go house to house, because that's when you would mix it, at night; and they raise all night. They was slow raising. [ Return to Top ]

GS: You talk about your kids. Were they mostly born at home? Your kids.

EC: No, I think, four of them was born at home and then the rest in the hospital. Then they all go to the hospital. The doctors wouldn't come at home. Then go to the hospital.

GS: They have midwives or something? (276)

EC: Yeah, they had midwives. They did. They were awful nice, the midwives were. Just like a doctor, they were, you know.

GS: Were they Italian ladies?

EC: No, Polish, Polish. She took the trade up, and she did it. She was Polish, very good; and they always called on her. She knew everything.

GS: You remember her name? It's really been a while.

EC: No, that's been a long time.

CC: Back in the thirties.

EC: Yeah, yeah, they lived in Benwood.

GS: Did they have a section that was Polish.

EC: No, no, it was just a mix, American, Italian, Polish.

GS: Well you had one section that was mostly Italians, you say.

EC: Oh, up here, up here, yeah, mostly all Italian, yeah. Down in Center Benwood, mostly all Americans and the Polish, down in Center; but up here was all Italian. Almost every other house was Italian. It seemed like they settled right up here.  (292)

CC: Right above the mill here.

EC: I guess when they come to visit, and everybody was Italian, they just all start moving in, you know, like Little Italy.

CC: Mostly speak Italian back when you were say early childhood?

EC: They all spoke, yeah, yeah. They all spoke Italian. They wouldn't speak English, all Italian.

GS: Did the Church play an important role in the community, or in your family? Not really. The Catholic Church?

EC: No, no.

GS: Is there a Catholic Church here?

EC: Yeah, St. John's.

CC: Yeah, they was all probably members of the Catholic Church.

EC: Yeah, but they wouldn't go to church, you know. They wouldn't go to church. Only Christmas, Easter, they would go to church, most all of them, yeah. Yeah, they got church now, St. John's. (306)

CC: That was the church back then too?

EC: Yeah.

GS: Is that a school down there?

CC: Yeah, St. John's grade school.

EC: Yeah, that's a school too, grade school, St. John.

GS: Anything else, Carl?

EC: Nineteen thirty-six, that was a disaster year. That's when we had those two big floods, one big one and one little one. That year it was.

GS: Well, yeah, I've seen pictures of Wheeling where it was under water during that time.

EC: Was it thirty-six?

GS: Yeah, thirty-six, yeah. (314)

EC: Yeah, they had two, one big one, and then they had a little one, same year, in thirty-six.

GS: The water didn't get up this far, did it?

EC: No, it was down below there though. It was covered, well covered. It was.

GS: The main part of Benwood was covered?

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah, it was all covered. They come out with boats and everything. That was the big one. Then they had a little one later.

GS: Probably take some time to recover from that, didn't it?

EC: Oh, yeah, all that mud and everything. I don't know what else.

CC: Anything else you want to say about anything.

GS: Did you ever go up, leave here. I mean, did you ever go to Wheeling to shop?

EC: Oh, yeah, I went to Wheeling to shop. We go to Bellaire to shop, Moundsville, shop. (329)

CC: How'd you get there when you was just a kid?

EC: Oh, when we was a kid, we walked to Bellaire. We walked.

GS: Across the bridge?

EC: Yeah, across the bridge, me and my brother Joe, we used to walk across the bridge, walk up to Center Benwood, walk out. Everywhere we went we walked.

CC: How about to Wheeling?

EC: Walked to Wheeling. We used to walk to Wheeling. Then we used to go up on the hill, pick dandelions, Boggs Run, pick dandelions. I don't know if you know that. Dandelion what it is?

CC: Yeah.

EC: Oh, okay.

GS: I know what it is. I've never eaten it.

EC: Yes, that's a vegetable, green. We used to, a bunch of us women, we'd go with our great big sacks and get dandelions and cook them. We used to go through the tunnel. There used to be a tunnel up here at Benwood. You go through that tunnel. (341)

GS: Was it a train tunnel or something?

EC: No, it was just an open tunnel up here in Benwood; and it would lead you through Boggs Run. You walked through there; and it had one light, one at the enter and one when you leave, you know, on each side; and you walked through the tunnel, then you'd be in Boggs Run. It was a shortcut; and people from Boggs Run, they would walk through there to go to work; because nobody had cars, you know; and everybody walked; and I don't think anybody had cholesterol in those days. Yeah, they walked.

CC: You had to get them dandelions early before they flowered.

EC: Yeah, before they get flowered and that.

GS: In the spring.

EC: Before they get flowers.

GS: Did you ever make dandelion wine?

EC: No, but they do make dandelion wine.

GS: I've heard of it. I've never had it. (353)

EC: Yeah. I make dandelion. I cooked it not too long ago, dandelion with cabbage, I mean with the ham hock and ham and beans. Very good for you it is.

CC: You can cook it or use it as a salad.

EC: Yeah, either one. If you get it small, you can fix it as a salad. As it gets big, you can fix them with ham and beans. We lived on that too.

GS: Well, that, I think that's some real interesting stuff you're telling me, how you made do with whatever was around you. Did you ever eat poke greens?

EC: Not poke. We ate a lot of mush, polenta. Have you ever heard of that? It's like a mush; and you cook it for a long time; and you put it in a big platter or a big table; and you spread it out; and you put sauce on it and beans and grated cheese; and everybody gets around the table; and they eat a little bit of that, you know, with a spoon; and you wouldn't dare go next territory. You know, everybody had their area.

CC: They didn't have dishes then. They ate off a board. (368)

EC: No. They would have a board like this; and they spread it, you know. You cook it a long time; and they put sauce on it, beans, if you want beans. They put a lot of cheese, Italian cheese on it; and everybody had their corner to eat; and, buddy, you better not get in my corner; because you're going to hear from it; and they loved that too. That was really good. People used to cook a lot of that.

CC: That's cornmeal.

EC: Cornmeal, polenta, they call it polenta; and now they fry it, fried mush, you know, Americans, you know; but I still make it, you know. [ Return to Top ] My brother, he likes it, Tony. My kids like it. I don't think you like it though, do you?

CC: No, it was Joe that didn't like it.

EC: Yeah, my other ones they like it. I remember when Carl was small I used to make cabbage, potatoes, and beans; and I used to get hard bread and put it on the bottom of the bowl; and I used to pour that on top; and he would say, "When are you going to make that bread pudding?" and I couldn't understand what bread pudding; and he used to call that bread pudding. You know, put that hard bread on the bottom and the cabbage; and he would say bread pudding; and it wasn't bread pudding. It was cabbage and that, you know; but they ate everything. I used to bake every day. At night I'd make doughnuts for the kids and bake bread. (392)

GS: Wow. You did have a big family though.

EC: I'd make apple strudels, you know; get bread dough, roll it; and I'd get bread dough and fry it and put powdered; Elephant Ears they call it now, you know; and you put powdered sugar and stuff on it; but I did everyday, you know. I couldn't afford to go buy it; and they wanted their sweets; and they all had their own poke, their own bag with the powdered sugar; and, as I was frying the doughnuts, they all put them in the bag; and they would shake it; and they would eat the doughnuts, you know.

CC: Put our own topping on it.

EC: Yeah.

GS: That's a lot of time, baking every day.

EC: Every day.

GS: I think my wife's family, they baked; but they would do it once a week and have enough bread for the week what's they tried to do.

EC: Oh, is that right, oh well. (404)

CC: Nine kids.

GS: They didn't have that many kids.

EC: Yeah, yeah, and they ate a lot of bread with all their meals, and I did too, and I still do. That's my weakness is bread, but I still cook, carry the tradition. I still cook cabbage and stuff, polenta, my old tradition, bagels, Italian bagels. I still make them. It's like American bagels, but it's different, you know, more work than that. Everything's more work than that.

GS: Everything's more work.

EC: Yeah, and more work.

GS: It seems like you wouldn't, what you're talking about, cooking was the main part, I can see that. What did you do for enjoyment during that time? Or did you have time to?

EC: Didn't have time. Go see the sick, if they was in the hospital, and my mother, you know, and then the kids and clean, and they was going to school. No enjoyment, none, nothing like going bowling or anything, you know. We didn't have no enjoyment then. (423)

GS: You didn't have parties, unless maybe you went to somebody's house.

EC: Yeah, yeah, true, that kind of party; but going out to the bar like they do now, there wasn't no bars then, very few. Everybody had their own drinks in their own house you know, and we'd go visit who was sick and who was dead, who's dying and all that. Them days that was the only enjoyment. It's not like now.

GS: What about music?

EC: They had radio then, just play the radio, and then people wouldn't play. They was so busy, you know. They had gardens, go up in the gardens; and then they had their kids. Everybody had quite a few kids, and they had neighbors that they helped one another and everything. There was no enjoyment, vacation time, in those days. Didn't have money to go vacation. Didn't have money to do anything. You just had money to do very few, you know. You worked two, three days a week. You had to stretch that, you know.

CC: I think visiting people was the main part of enjoyment. (444)

EC: I think that was our enjoyment. Go visit people and bring them something, a little thing. Whatever it was, they enjoyed whatever you brought them. Even if it was two jars of tomatoes or a couple pound of macaroni or something like that, just go to visit, talk. That's enjoyment what we had.

GS: That's where you got your friends.

CC: Friends from.

EC: Yeah, right.

GS: Back to the friendship.

EC: Yeah, that's what it is, yeah.

GS: The reason I ask about music, you know, the Italians, you think of mandolins and things like that.

EC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there's a lot of musicians, you know; but they played more of them at weddings when they had them at home or they'd baptize a baby or confirmation. They would do it at home, you know, have big dinners.

GS: That makes a party out of that. (458)

EC: Make a party. Accordion, if they know anybody that plays accordion, or anybody sing. They'd dance, you know. That was like a little party they would have at home.

CC: Now, when they sang, would it be Italian music?

EC: It'd be Italian, because they was Italian.

CC: And it was in the Italian language?

EC: Yeah, Italian language.

GS: That's, okay, a little singing, playing at christenings and births.

EC: They'd sing in Italian, because they was all Italian. It's just like Italian Festival, you know, Italian, they all sing Italian, you know. They didn't know how to sing American. They couldn't even speak it much. They just got by, you know. The important thing, but they had that nice, and you help them with the baptism or the confirmation, you know. They said, "Will you come over and help me make this, make that." You go and help them make for the doings, what they're going to have or weddings. A lot of men, they would get involved with it; and they would put their white caps on and white aprons, just like a cook would, you know; and they would go over; and they'd start a day ahead of time, start cooking and everything. (480)

CC: Bring in the wine.

EC: Yeah, well they had that, the wine and all that. You don't have to bring that in. All they needed was the people to help, you know, to do things. They didn't have to invite people. They just volunteered. They would go. Now, if you have a party, you invite them, say, "You want to come over." Everybody was so close and so friendly that you didn't have to invite them; and then, if you needed help, like make cookies or anything, say, "You want to help make some cookies?" "Well, yeah, we'll go and help make cookies." You know, but everybody was invited, you know; but they'd know, "Oh, what-you-call-him's getting married." "Oh, okay, we've got to go. We've got to go." You know, everybody'd go because they're friends, you know. Now, I ain't going, I ain't got no invitation; but then they'd go, you know. They didn't go to bring, they wouldn't bring no money or anything, they just went, you know. They didn't have no money to bring. They was just happy to see them.

CC: Just to celebrate.

EC: Yeah, just to celebrate, that's all. That was all.

GS: So, it sounds like you did have a little bit of fun. (501)

EC: Yeah, a little bit of fun like that?

GS: But it's a different kind of fun.

EC: Yeah, yeah, where everybody had the same then. It wasn't no fun like vacation and all that, no, that's out. Didn't have money for that. Lucky had money to eat. We had to do in the summer for the winter, like the ants. You had to preserve in the summer for the winter.

GS: Do a lot of canning?

EC: Had to do a lot of canning. Mom did a lot of canning when I was small, tomatoes and peppers; and then I did a lot of canning, tomatoes and everything for my kids too, you know. Everybody did, not only me, all of them, because everybody was in the same boot. I wasn't the only one, everybody was.

CC: She still does that with the tomatoes.

EC: I still do it. I still can. I still have a garden up there, and I do it. I love to do it. I did it, you know, all my life. When you do it from you're small, you'll do it, you know.

CC: How many quarts of tomatoes did you put up last year? (522)

EC: A hundred and fifty.

GS: Wow.

EC: Oh, that's nothing. Me and my husband used to make about three hundred up.

CC: In the winter use them all up.

EC: Yeah, we used to put a stew-like with tomatoes and beans and stuff. It was like a stew in a jar. All you had to do was open it up in the winter, or peppers.

CC: That was good.

GS: That's why every Sunday you say, "I'm going over to my Mom's to eat."

EC: Yeah, yeah.

CC: She let's me eat every day.

EC: Yeah.

CC: Yeah, one thing about Italian people, they love to cook. (534)

EC: I used to make macaroni, macaroni with beans, and it would involve all the time with spaghetti what I cooked, you know; and I remember my kids say boy, "If I ever get married, I never want to see spaghetti again, I never want to see it." That's all they want now when they come over. "You got sauce, you got sauce." Carl's the first one, "You got any sauce." They all want to eat slop again, when they used to say, "I ain't going to eat that slop when I get married," you know.

CC: I think our life did revolve around them cans of tomatoes downstairs in the basement. It was like a weekly thing.

EC: Yeah, yeah, really, sure.

GS: But you've still got a garden you say.

EC: Yeah, I've got a garden. My son-in-law planted it. I still got tomatoes and green beans up there. I'll be putting them up in jars. They like canned tomatoes.

CC: Garlic.

EC: Garlic, I got my garlic. It'll be ready, and lettuce is up there. You just like to have a little garden to go piddle around in it. I like to piddle around in it. (555)

GS: It's fun now.

EC: Yeah.

GS: It wasn't fun before.

EC: Oh, well.

CC: Heavy duty garden then.

EC: Yeah.

CC: But I can see, looking back at them times, you know, gardens were probably a main part.

EC: Oh, yeah.

CC: Because they didn't have no money to go to Kroger. There wasn't even no Kroger's around here, I don't think.

EC: People at Center Benwood, they had to climb up that hill and get some food in, you know, plant a garden, just hope that it rains so you have a nice garden and stuff.

CC: How about street vendors? Did they have them? (567)

EC: Bums? Yeah, they had a lot of them. Bums'll knock at the door and ask if you'll give them a sandwich or something for work.

CC: No, I mean people selling stuff off the street.

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah, they had a lot of them. They even had trucks selling meat on the street, but now you can't do that. You need a license for everything, you know. They used to sell everything, tomatoes, fruit, vegetables; and that one truck, his name was Tony, he had meat, he had a scale; because there wasn't no stores. People didn't have a car, and it was easy for the people.

GS: He sold meat. Did he have it refrigerated?

EC: Yeah, yeah, it was refrigerated; and they had meat, chicken, whatever you wanted.

GS: I heard some of the farmers even brought groundhogs in and sold them.

EC: Yeah, yeah, farmers, fresh eggs,..., they would come with their vegetable and eggs, because who had cars to go to the store? You had to walk. If you had a car, okay, but nobody could afford a car; and everywhere you went you just walked. You walked to Moundsville. Now it seems like its hard. Then it wasn't long. Now, you got a car, you ain't going to walk it.594

CC: I can imagine walking there.

GS: It's a long ways to Moundsville.

EC: Yeah, but you walked it. It didn't seem long, you know.

CC: Did you walk there for a particular reason?

EC: Oh, you'd go there, they'd give flour away, you know, to make bread.

CC: The government did?

EC: Yeah, it was like commodities, like they do now. They give you butter, and you had to put coloring to it, and you mixed it up, and you walked for that stuff, you know, when they give that stuff away. Beans, they give beans away, cornmeal, rice.

GS: Walk clear there, and then have to carry it all back.

EC: All back, yeah, yeah. Boy, you made a fast run. You didn't care how long it was, you went. (609)

CC: Yeah, when they're giving it.

EC: Sure. You was hoping that they didn't run out when you got there. But I says that that was fun. You tell the kids that, they'd say, "Oh, tell us another joke." They'd think it was all a joke.

GS: You're talking about walking, that was probably during the Depression or right afterwards. Yeah.

EC: Right. It was Depression. Walked we did. I think everybody walked then. You wasn't a loner. You'd say come on. Let's go. Eh, come on. Mary, eh, I'm going. You ready. Come on. Well, let's go." You know. Everybody was happy going. They was doing their thing, you know.

CC: How about, did you ever go to the movies back then?

EC: No.

CC: I thought there was a theater.

EC: That was later on they had a movie at Center Benwood. You pay ten cents, fifteen cents. Sometime you didn't have that to go. Kids couldn't go, you know. (629)

GS: When was that? What period of time are we talking about?

EC: That was when I got married, I think, later.

GS: Still in the thirties though.

EC: Yeah, it was in the thirties. Then, ten cents, go to the movie. You could have bought a loaf of bread with that. You didn't go to the movies too often. You had to go out and do things, and, see, people pay you pennies then. Now they don't want a penny. You couldn't give a kid a penny. Then they give you pennies and do something. That was money, you know; and they would do that in order to make money to go to the movie. Parents couldn't afford it, not like now, say, "Here, here's a buck. Don't forget it." Those days you never seen a buck. That's why I always barked with my kids, you know, just giving, giving, too much. You had to leave them showing a little appreciation.

GS: Now they ask for ten bucks.

EC: That's right. Goes higher and higher.

GS: Yeah, I know it does. I've got kids too.

EC: Yeah, and they say, "Oh, ain't we going on a vacation. Oh, let's go here, and let's go there." They're never satisfied. We never looked for that. Everything we got, we never fought for it. Then we had a little potbelly stove. We used to all get around that. I think we kept that stove warm. (662)

GS: I like that.

EC: Yeah, we all got around that potbelly stove, you know, and we'd have chestnuts, or we'd peel apples or these winter pears, you know, these hard pears. Mom used to get them in; and, little by little, they'd get soft, you know, and peel them. Keep warm. You'd be right there, and I remember my brother. He used to go to bed with his clothes on and toboggan. It was so cold, you know, upstairs. That's all we had was coal. No refrigerator. We left things. What we was going to put in a refrigerator? Nothing, you know. We had canned milk. We would use that. Meat, we used to buy meat once a week, when a butcher come around. So what did we need a refrigerator for? Nobody had one.They had one of those ice boxes. They would get ice and bring it in who would have it, you know.

GS: Did you have one of those ice boxes?

EC: No, later on we did. In the beginning we didn't. We didn't have nothing to put in there, you know. Then who did have it, they didn't have much to put in; and we would say, "Oh, could we put this in there?" Could they, you know, share a little bit, you know.694

CC: How about your dad? Grandpap Sparchane worked in the mill too?

EC: Yeah, he worked in the mill too, he did. Mom, she was a worker too, up on the hill and everything.

CC: What part of Rome did she come from?

EC: ... she come from. Daddy was from ...., another part of Italy.

CC: Were they pretty close?

EC: Yeah, pretty close, yeah, like Benwood and Wheeling and McMechen, you know.

GS: Same area.

EC: Yeah, yeah, right, same area. (Break in recording at this point due to tape repositioning.)

EC: Yeah, twenty-three. (711)

CC: You were born in twenty-three, and they were already here. I don't know how long though.

EC: We often wondered why didn't we ask more questions like a family tree, you know; but Mommy say, "Oh, I lived by Rome. I lived by here," you know. We never took note of all that, you know.

CC: But she visited Italy later on in her life again and you did too.

EC: Oh, yeah, she was over there, and I was over there twice. The first time I seen my sister-in-law. My husband seen her. How long has it been?

CC: A long time. His sister.

EC: Yeah. Over twenty years he hadn't seen her.

CC: What kind of house did she live in over in Italy where Dad came from?

EC: Oh, yeah, she didn't have much of a house. She didn't have no outside, she had an outside toilet; and it was a run down place. (722)

CC: What was the house made out of?

EC: Brick. Everything's brick over there. Ceramic and brick, stones. Driveways are made of marble, stones; they have a lot of this over there, ceramic. They put this in their driveway over there. But, when I went over there, the other sister she was in good shape; but the people over there are so friendly too. You walk down the street, "Oh, here comes American." They come up and they kiss you as if like they knew you for so long. No use in putting makeup on, because you face was splattered with kisses, you know.

GS: You went over with your husband.

EC: Yeah, I went over with my husband twice. The first time he went over since he come over; and there was such a big change over there, you know. It's like here, you know. They remodeled the roads and everything, and he seen his sister there then for the first time.

CC: He visited twice. That was, in what, probably late sixties, early seventies.

EC: Yeah, yeah, we went twice over there. Really enjoyed it. They make you feel at home, all those people over there. That's all they do. They drink wine. They don't drink water over there. They start drinking wine in the morning. They drink their wine. You never see them drink water. Little kids even drink wine. That's why when they come over here, their cheeks are so rosy, you know.739

CC: When you went over there, did it remind you, the way they live over there, when you went.

EC: I never was over there.

CC: I mean, did it remind you of your early days here in Benwood?

EC: Yeah, the same way, but they do a lot of kissing over there. You're kissed to death.

CC: They like to eat.

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah. They cook meals real fast. Real fast they'll put a meal on the table; and, of course, you've got a bottle of red wine and a bottle of white wine. Take your pick, which one you like; and you drink; and that wine don't get you drunk. I can't understand it. Over here, if I have two wine, I'm done. Over there, if I drink, it's like.

CC: It's like for eating and drinking.

EC: Yeah, yeah, for eating their meals; and little kids. I'm looking. I say, "My God, she's drinking that wine;" and it wouldn't bother those kids, you know. Now, "Oh, don't you give him that wine. It'll get him drunk;" but, hell, they wouldn't get drunk. I couldn't understand it, you know. But they were real friendly people like they knew for so long. Neighbor over there. A lot of gardenings over there, but the second trip I went over. No, they're cutting down with their work, their gardening and that.

CC: A lot of the ones that were doing it are probably getting older. The other generation is here.

EC: Yeah, yeah, younger generation, they got jobs, where the older ones, they never got jobs. You know, they couldn't speak it and that, and they couldn't find a job in the factory. The younger ones, they started speaking English, mixing, you know, and they got job in the factory; and their ain't much digging over there, gardening, like there was before; but people live so different over there. It was so different.

CC: I heard Dad's sister. She used to have sheep. (763)

EC: Yeah, sheeps, yeah. She used to take them out first thing in the morning. Six of them she would have. She would make her own cheese.

CC: I remember her sending cheese over here.

EC: Yeah, hard cheese. She would make some of the real good rigoto, dry rigoto; but that's what she lived on.

CC: It would come here in rolls like.

EC: Yeah, little hard rolls, good, hard. That was good cheese, you know, goat cheese. They had their own grapevines. Oh, my God, Lord knows how many grapevines, grapevines.

CC: Wonder what that was for?

GS: I think I know what that was for.

EC: Figs, figs, and they used to make olives, olives, they used to make oil, a lot of olives, they'd make oil with those olives and that, and fig trees. They'd just go out and just pick figs off of the tree and oranges. Just get it and eat it, you know. The country environment, it was so nice over there. I said, "Gee, it would be nice if it would be like this at home," you know. If you had figs or anything, well you just go over and pick it. I mean, they wouldn't get mad or anything. Everybody shared. They all shared their things. Their work, at hay time everybody helps, you know. "Oh, you're going to dig hay, you know, roll it." My God, they had about twenty people helping, and then they had like a sandwich and bottle of wine, and they would eat afterwards, you know; but everybody helped one another with their jobs like that. (782)

GS: Sounds like what you were talking about here.

EC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd like to go back. It's very nice over there, but now it's mixed over there. A lot of people talks Italian, the younger ones talks Italian. They're getting mixed now over there. First time I was there, everybody talked Italian, kids, everybody. Now they're mixing. They're learning, and they're mixing now. Schooling, they have tutors teach English and that, and they're learning different. But they have like the Italian Festival over there. Oh, they have it for two days, beautiful. They carry the Blessed Mother. There's four people. They carry the Blessed Mother. They have like a stand. They put the Blessed Mother on there, and then you can pin money on her, like dollar bills, you know. You're from America. You put a dollar, two dollars, you know, whatever you want to put, gold, you put on there; and they march it all through the town; and they would have music, a band; and then, after they bring the procession, it's like a procession with the Blessed Mother, everybody joins in with going walking; and then they'll bring her in front of the church; and then they'll have the street fair going on like they do here, you know, with everything. They'll have a band, and they dance and everything. It's really beautiful. We was there one time with that. My husband, he carried the Blessed Mother, four people, you know. They have it on stilts. (804)

GS: They never did anything like that here, did they?

EC: No, no, no, not like that. They have processions, but that was something different. They carried the Blessed Mother all through that town and plus the music. That was something to see. I was shocked when I seen it the first time, you know. Then they put her in front of the church, and whatever you want to give her on her stand, jewelry, money, change, whatever, dollar, two, three, whatever, you know, { penance} by some other feast.

GS: Do you ever go up to the Italian Festival in Wheeling?

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah, I go there. That's real nice. It's like a family thing. It's like a gathering. Everybody goes there, and everybody knows everybody, and everybody's drinking and singing, and, you know, different stands and all. It's real nice up there too. (817)

GS: I've never been. I'll be there this year.

EC: Oh, you've never been there. Oh, you'll love it. Where you from, you never been there.

GS: Well, I live out in Cameron; but I should have gone, I guess.

EC: Well, how about Clarksburg. They have one down there.

GS: Yeah.

EC: But I didn't like theirs. I've been down there.

GS: It's in September, I think.

EC: Yeah. I didn't care much for theirs. I like ours more.

GS: Because you know everybody.

EC: Yeah, I think that was the problem, but I know people from Clarksburg. I met them down there. They was up here. They follow. They go. They come up. They say, "Oh, I seen you before." I say, "Yeah, you seen me in Clarksburg." Yeah. (825)

GS: They have like a hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand people at the one in Clarksburg. I don't know about this one.

EC: Oh, this is bigger than Clarksburg, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You go one time, you want to go all the time. They sell beer. They have beer stands; and they have those elephant ears. They sell everything. All you need is money, you know; and all kind of. They sell spaghetti and lasagna, pizza, sausage. You know, everything, according, what you eat. That's the name of the game, you know. Different people, everybody gets together you haven't seen for a while. They move to Bellaire. You haven't seen them. They come over. You get to meet, I think, is what it's all about. Getting together, more than anything else.

GS: That's what it should be, I believe, yeah.

EC: Yeah, that's what it is. I mean, a lot of people, they moved to Moundsville, where I don't know where they live, or Bellaire; and you'll get to see them. You hug them and you kiss them, "Oh, how you been," and everything, you know. It's just like a gathering it is. I love it. It's just a lot of fun. They have entertainment, dances. You get up there and dance, you know. It's all in fun. (841)

GS: They had some big name entertainers haven't they, over the years?

EC: Yeah, yeah, they try to bring the big ones. They try to bring the ones that people seem to like, you know; and they all come in, oh, my God, that places gets packed. It gets packed. You probably can go all three nights, two nights, maybe one night will be enough for you. There's a lot of walking from one end to the other it is, but you don't realize because you meet people. You talk to people. You don't realize you're walking, you know. You're going. You're moving. You seen so many. It's packed. It gets packed.

EC: (Comment to Carl on his return to the room.) He's talking about the Festival, the Italian Festival.

CC: Yeah.

GS: She says it's a great time.

CC: Yeah.

EC: Yeah it is.

CC: Was there anything like that back in the twenties, thirties, forties? Did you have street fairs?

EC: Well, we never had street fairs. (852)

GS: She said they had something like that over in Italy.

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah, in Italy they have it. In fact I got a letter from them now. They carry the Blessed Mother on stilts, like a platform; and who carries her has to be draped like an altar boy.

CC: Yeah, that's a, what's the name of that?

EC: St. Anthony.

CC: It's like a.

EC: The Blessed Mother. They dress like an altar boy, with their cape and everything; and then, if you're from America, generally they donate fifty bucks American money; because it's valued more over there, our money is, you know. Fifty bucks is maybe seventy with their money, the exchange; and they generally. This one from Buffalo, New York, he did too with Daddy; and they parade all through like High Street, all through High Street, clear down the other end. All the people, everybody goes in, and they're all singing and everything, and then they turn around and come back, and they'll bring the Blessed Mother in front of the church, and then, if you still want to donate gold, whatever, to the Blessed Mother, your penance, she'll be there while the street fair is going on. Then they have a dance, and they have food. They have everything there, and they have a good old time there too, but I said he's going to this street fair. Ooh, you'll see a street fair. I said that one down in Clarksburg, I was down there. I didn't care much for that. (871)

CC: I was at that one.

EC: It wasn't that big. Maybe because we didn't know the people.

CC: It was nice for them, I'm sure, I mean, you know, probably just like here.

EC: I know the people from down there, they come up here, you know. They like to go. It's Italian tradition, you know, a lot of Italian people, mostly all Italian, American goes, a lot of Americans.

CC: How about gangsters? Was there any gangsters back then?

EC: Oh, there was gangsters back then. They killed you. Oh, yeah, they was gangsters. If they did any murder, any crime, nothing was solved. Nothing. They had things like gypsies, you know; and, if you're sleeping, they can open that door and come in. They put a little bit of powder to knock you out; and they would take out what they wanted; and then, if they committed a crime, it wasn't solved. Oh, you'd say, "Oh, what-you-call-him's dead." "Ah, somebody killed." You couldn't make no enemies because you was scared you'd be a dead one. Everybody had to be friends then. If you made an enemy, you'd forget it. (885)

GS: Now that's something interesting.

EC: Yeah.

CC: What'd they call that, back then?

EC: They never called them anything.

CC: They wasn't organized.

EC: No, no, no, I remember Mom. She lived in Mingo, and they dragged two of her trunks out. They put them to sleep. They put them to sleep. They had { trade} through the doors, you know. They dragged her trunks out. They'd drag anything out, what they wanted. They didn't have much, but they would drag it out. You'd never know who did it.

CC: You say Grandma lived in Mingo? (893)

EC: She lived in Mingo for a while, and then she moved to Benwood. Mingo, a lot of Italian people too, up there; but I wasn't.

CC: Mingo Junction?

EC: Yeah, I wasn't up there though.

CC: You were born in Benwood.

EC: Yeah, but there's a lot of people there too, Steubenville, a lot of Italian people there too; and there's a lot of people killing then; but they didn't have cops like now. If you had an enemy, forget it, you're a dead one. They shoot you, kill you, whatever. You never find out who did it.

CC: So the Italian people pretty much watched out for that kind of thing.

EC: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah.

GS: They just took care of themselves. There was no police force to do it. (902)

EC: No, no, just try to keep friends with everybody, because you don't know who was good and who was bad. Who did the works? You didn't know. Who was the bad egg? So everybody tried to be on the good side of everybody. Well, I hope you like that street fair we have this year. Just bring a wallet with you. There's a lot of booze, a lot of food.

CC: You ever been up there?

GS: No, that's what I was telling her. I'll be there all three days this year.

CC: That'll be full up.

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah.

CC: You may not see a lot of, like a lot of the people from here on High Street, that you know, or even of Benwood, you know, it's like a reunion.

EC: It's like a reunion.

CC: See how other families are doing. (913)

EC: Like people have moved away and lived here we know, and everybody'll go, you know. Oh, Italian Festival, everybody goes, oh, you get to meet them and you kiss them and everything. It's just like getting together, you know. It's the same with the Americans, you know. Like his friend, they moved maybe to Bellaire. They moved away and they come back and get together. Old John Flating's back. He lives in Florida. He comes every year, and he lived in Benwood. So they all get together, and they go to the Festival, and get together and eat.

CC: Italian people like to eat and have a good time.

EC: They always did eat. They didn't have to go to a bar to party. They have a good time in their own house, you know.

CC: Reminisce and stuff.

EC: Yeah, and they had their own card games, and they had their drinks and sandwich.

CC: How about salami and that?

EC: Oh, yeah, salami, prosciutto, they use to get that, a lot of coffee with whiskey, coffee royal. Every morning, you know, get coffee royal, you know. Mom would have her friends.

CC: The ladies. (931)

EC: Yeah, Mom, you know; and they come.

CC: Ladies, huh?

EC: Oh, come on, we're going to have a little bit of coffee with whiskey, you know, coffee royal. They didn't put a lot, but it was coffee, you know; but that was what their enjoyment was keeping together, you know. Now you don't even know your next door neighbor. I said, "Gee, I can't believe it." You can't go, I remember my mother said, "Oh, you better not go to that one's house. She ain't got no kids." Because I had all my kids, you know. "Don't go to her house," you know. It was just a different thing, when I was first married. Everybody didn't have a nice house. Everybody was just, didn't have linoleum on the floor. Nothing was nice. Everybody just take care. You come to my house. I go to your house.

CC: In them days was most of the Italian people recently arrived here?

EC: Yeah, yeah.

CC: Back when you were a kid. (945)

EC: Yeah, yeah, they were here. No, they were here when I was born.

GS: When she was born.

CC: Yeah.

EC: Yeah, yeah, they were here.

GS: Well, I think we've got a pretty good interview. Unless you've got anything else you want to add here, and I'll wrap it up.

EC: No, I think that's all, isn't it? Can you think of anything else?

CC: You could talk for days probably.

EC: Yeah, yeah.

GS: Well, okay.

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